legal or not

[gtrfxr]

there was an article in the orange county california paper the register yesterday talking about people being arrested for carrying knives. I know my leek and spec bump were sold to me in california as being legal. I would like to know what makes them legal according to the current law so I can have some kind of argument if ever confronted by law enforcement. Thanks in advance.

[Uchi Deshi]

It is a felony to carry a concealed fixed blade. A fixed blade must be carried openly (preferably on the belt (although that is not strictly required, some people have had to go to trial to be acquitted of carrying a concealed knife when arrested for carrying an openly displayed boot knife).

Folders of any length are allowed by California law. However, it is important to also check local city ordinances as they may have a restriction on the length of the blade.

[gtrfxr]

thanks for the information. what I really need to know however is why the speed safe is not considered a switchblade.

[Uchi Deshi]

CA Penal Code section 653K states:

For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

What this means is that if you press a button and it releases the blade by itself, it is a switchblade. Balisongs, because they release by their weight, are also classified as switchblades. I don't know how the mechanism of the speed safe works, but if you have to push the blade or a thumbstud, etc. to make it open, rather than a spring-assisted button, it is not a switchblade. I believe that all of the Onions are safely defined as NOT switchblades.

The trouble with being armed with knowledge, however, is that police make mistakes and may think something is a switchblade, and arrest you anyway. Then it's up to to the DA to decide whether to charge it or not. If they do, you could conceivably have to prove at trial that it does not fit the switchblade definition.

There is an excellent discussion of the California knife laws here:

http://www.equalccw.com/knifelaw.html

[Uchi Deshi]

L.A. bans open carry of 3"+ knives (with vague "lawful recreation" exception); Oakland bans 3"+ knives completely. A much despised case, People ex rel. Mautner v Quattrone 211 Cal.App.3d 1389 (1989), held that butterfly knives are covered by CA's switchblade prohibition. People v Rosalio S. 41 Cal Rptr.2d 534 deals with a leatherman and the 2.5" school limit, finding the leatherman illegal because blades are legally measured from tip to handle, not just along the sharpened edge.

[UW Mitch]

so I can have some kind of argument if ever confronted by law enforcement. Thanks in advance.

If confronted by law enforcement you should have NO kind of argument. I would let them take it away from you. I mean that seems a lot better than getting in a debate with a officer, which he could percieve as hostile, and just decide to arrest you. Another word to the wise (not directed at Richard) is that one should be very careful about what "legal advice" they take from the internet. Obviously the best case is to conduct yourself in a way that does not require law enforcement to confront you about what tools you may or may not be carrying.

Good luck!
Mitch

[phalanx50]

If a LEO takes your knife GET A PROPERTY RECIEPT!

jake

[gtrfxr]

thank you for the information. I perhaps phrased my statement wrong. I would never argue with a cop as at that moment they have all the power but you can explain things if you do so in a calm non-confrontive manner. I would not resist if he wanted to take my knife, I would just ask for a receipt or take his name and badge number for later use.

[Uchi Deshi]

Another word to the wise (not directed at Richard) is that one should be very careful about what "legal advice" they take from the internet.

Good luck!
Mitch

Very good advice, Mitch!

Dave, I hope that answers your question. My understanding is that it is because the Onions (or any similar folder) do not just fall open by gravity (like a balisong), nor do they spring open with a button, but are held closed until you push on the blade or thumbstud, that they are not classified as switchblades.

[acourvil]

I think that the key elements are (1) they are activated by pushing on the blade or a stud attached to the blade, and (2) they have a detent or bias towards being closed.

[Uchi Deshi]

Nicely summarized, Art.

[hkdcane]

Also,having many LAPD friends,when the officer<s> start directing the conversation of how you use the knife,I wouldn't mention any self-defense type uses:weapon! And a free ride with matching silver braclets.:rolleyes: Thus,I mainly give the uses that implies it sole use as a tool: opening boxes,envelopes and an impromptu pizza cutter.:)

Jim.

[commodorewheeler]

I think that the key elements are (1) they are activated by pushing on the blade or a stud attached to the blade, and (2) they have a detent or bias towards being closed.

Art hit it right on the head. I spent an afternoon talking to a local maker who has served as an expert witness multiple times in Speed-Safe trial cases, and he said those two reasons are exactly why a Speed-Safe knife is not legally considered a switchblade in the state of California.